tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post5411147455643246610..comments2024-03-29T07:36:41.429-04:00Comments on Incinerating Presuppositionalism: STB: One Year and Still Waiting…Bahnsen Burnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11030029491768748360noreply@blogger.comBlogger325125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-65430809252779482392013-04-09T15:07:38.879-04:002013-04-09T15:07:38.879-04:00well actually Hezekiah the Quran says that allah c...well actually Hezekiah the Quran says that allah can do all things but not that he will do all things, and that he wont do anything that makes him not god, also doesnt acts 17 prove that god is a moral relevtist? since he has overlooked the supposed bad things gentiles did? And if he overlooks sins by certain people than it would mean that the same standard does not apply to everyone at all timeswakawakwakahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15264808613704582683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-77164748284492229472013-04-09T15:03:10.270-04:002013-04-09T15:03:10.270-04:00actually Hezekiah Ahaz in the Quran it says that g...actually Hezekiah Ahaz in the Quran it says that god can do anything, but not that he WILL do anything that will make him not the greatest and most powerful-so you are wrong there and also thats saying if Moses existed in the first place....he seems no more realistic than Emperor Jimmu!wakawakwakahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15264808613704582683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-84093004921548053112011-09-08T09:35:20.913-04:002011-09-08T09:35:20.913-04:00Luis,
Said: "Man, fuck this debate"
Is...Luis,<br /><br />Said: "Man, fuck this debate"<br /><br />Is this what you think about all day?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-23782076419030224752011-09-08T07:50:50.597-04:002011-09-08T07:50:50.597-04:00Man, fuck this debate. What I want to know is, why...Man, fuck this debate. What I want to know is, why do these relatively unknown Christian apologists always have these really weird, unlikely names? Sye Ten Bruggencate. <i>Really</i>? I can understand it if we were living in Asimov's Foundation universe, but this is getting ridiculous.Luis Cayetanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05210714337197709016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-81865217521851126402011-09-06T09:29:20.888-04:002011-09-06T09:29:20.888-04:00Dawson,
Yep. I had forgotten that, via his paint...Dawson,<br /><br />Yep. I had forgotten that, via his painting analogy, Mr. Hayes, as you put it in your blog entry, "...signs on the dotted line of his own worldview's commitment to the cartoon universe premise, cashing in on the legal tender of its vivid connotations."<br /><br />YdemocYdemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03498165330193613762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-46527287578103634232011-09-06T09:19:57.028-04:002011-09-06T09:19:57.028-04:00Mr.B,
You said: "Are you starting to underst...Mr.B,<br /><br />You said: "Are you starting to understand a little better yet? It appears not. You continue to shove your foot deeper and deeper into your own backside orifice after embarrassingly removing it from your mouth. Do you ever get tired of exposing your shame like this?"<br /><br /><br />It's interesting because God has emotions. I see a connection.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-26592123538458428062011-09-06T09:08:15.702-04:002011-09-06T09:08:15.702-04:00Nide: “Well one would have to assume or take for g...Nide: “Well one would have to assume or take for granted that his mind is functioning before he uses it.”<br /><br />Think about that for a moment, Nide. Just think about it. Work it through. Don’t you realize that one is using his mind in some way when he makes an assumption or takes something for granted? <br /><br />It was pointed out earlier that you will probably never grasp the nature of the breach caused by accepting stolen concepts in your thinking. Apparently it's true.<br /><br />Nide: “Can you give an account for doing this?”<br /><br />For doing what?<br /><br />I wrote: "Nide, no more wild goose chasing. WHAT IS YOUR POINT? Learn to make your point, or let it go."<br /><br />Nide: “I will save you the embarrassment and let this one go. Your unwillingness to answer the question says it all.”<br /><br />Nide, you asked a question about Plato and urged someone to answer it. I answered it, and asked you to explain your point in asking it. Now you say I’m unwilling to answer your question, and you say that my alleged “unwillingness to answer the question says it all.” It appears that it is you who is unwilling to answer questions. <br /><br />I wrote: "Yes, it is an absurdity. But this does not prevent millions of Christians from indulging in this awful habit."<br /><br />Nide: “Are you saying that absurdities are possible?”<br /><br />It depends on what “absurdity” refers to. There are things which I would characterize as absurd which do in fact exist. Muamar Qaddafi for example. The Mormon Church. The government of North Korea. Barack Obama. The Christian bible. Etc. These things all exist. And they are absurd.<br /><br />Are you starting to understand a little better yet? It appears not. You continue to shove your foot deeper and deeper into your own backside orifice after embarrassingly removing it from your mouth. Do you ever get tired of exposing your shame like this? <br /><br />Regards,<br />DawsonBahnsen Burnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11030029491768748360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-1094229265548549472011-09-06T08:31:15.570-04:002011-09-06T08:31:15.570-04:00Mr. B,
You said: "But in the meantime, we’re...Mr. B,<br /><br />You said: "But in the meantime, we’re dealing with a very unstable mind bent on deceiving not only himself, but also others."<br /><br />This is hilarious. Classic Dawson<br /><br />Of course, sir, this is coming from a man who claimed that absurdities are possible. This is the only conclusion that I could arrive at. Since you didn't answer. <br /><br />I wonder why you chose to ignore that part of my post. However, I will save you the embarrasment and let it go. <br /><br />I guess you didn't think things through. It's ok we all make mistakes.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />BlessingsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-69740675136606651422011-09-06T07:42:48.316-04:002011-09-06T07:42:48.316-04:00Nide: "Without begging the question or avoidi...Nide: "Without begging the question or avoiding a circle why do you believe your memory is valid?"<br /><br />It's "valid" because it's biological. It's as "valid" as digestion, respiration, circulation, photosynthesis, and other biological processes.<br /><br />Come on, throw some hardballs for once!<br /><br />Regards,<br />DawsonBahnsen Burnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11030029491768748360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-88723988760275607242011-09-06T07:40:07.746-04:002011-09-06T07:40:07.746-04:00Ydemoc quoted a Christian on fstdt.com:
"If ...Ydemoc quoted a Christian on fstdt.com:<br /><br />"If I am correct that my God is the Creator God, that we are all his creations, then killing every child under two on the planet is no more inherently significant than a programmer unilaterally wiping out his AI-bots in a game universe."<br /><br />Fascinating.<br /><br />Ydemoc: "This fundy seems to be on board with your 'Cartoon Universe Premise'."<br /><br />Yes, he certainly seems to be. But then again, so is Steve Hayes, if you recall <a href="http://bahnsenburner.blogspot.com/2006/07/see-i-told-you-so.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /><br />Regards,<br />DawsonBahnsen Burnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11030029491768748360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-47336366295019124992011-09-06T07:37:32.098-04:002011-09-06T07:37:32.098-04:00Nide wrote: “Your free to do whatever you want. Ho...Nide wrote: “Your free to do whatever you want. However, your freedom is determined and controlled by God. See the mystery?”<br /><br />What the Christian calls “mystery” is essentially a contradiction according to rational philosophy. The Christian prefers to label it a “mystery” so that he can distance himself from the fact that what he claims as knowledge in fact cannot be integrated without contradiction. Notice that he does not allow what he wants to call a contradiction in a rival worldview to be dismissed as simply “a mystery.” This is a privilege that the Christian is willing to reserve only for himself.<br /><br />The real “mystery” here is how an adult mind can truly accept this garbage in place of knowledge. I suspect that many who do go to some effort to defend such a view, do not in fact really believe it, but are so afraid to admit that they don’t believe it that they carry on as though they did believe it, perhaps in the hopes that one day they’ll convince themselves, or finally discover some key piece of evidence which will seal the matter for them psychologically. But in the meantime, we’re dealing with a very unstable mind bent on deceiving not only himself, but also others.<br /><br />Regards,<br />DawsonBahnsen Burnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11030029491768748360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-87195210778381884202011-09-06T07:33:56.999-04:002011-09-06T07:33:56.999-04:00Nide: “It's interesting because God has emotio...Nide: “It's interesting because God has emotions.”<br /><br />Emotions are a reaction to new knowledge as it impacts one’s hierarchy of values. How could the believer think that the Christian god would have emotions? The answer to this question is that the believer imagines his god in the absence of a rational understanding of the human mind, including the nature and causality of emotions.<br /><br />Given how the Christian god is described, it could not value anything, since it is said to be immortal, eternal and indestructible. Also, since it is said to be omniscient (a notion which Nide still has not attempted to validate from what I can see), there could be no new knowledge for it to integrate. So on both scores, we find the theist affirming more irreparable absurdity.<br /><br />If the Christian god existed, at best it would be capable only of utter indifference. And this is reflected in Christianity’s soteriology – some are saved while others are damned, for no rhyme or reason. All are said to be guilty and deserving of eternal damnation, but justice is carried out on some while justice is withheld for others, not for something they have done to merit such exoneration, but simply because the “Good Lord” wills it. Why would it will damnation for some and exoneration for others? Who knows. It’s “a mystery” we’re told. <br /><br />If the Christian god had any emotions, it would be profoundly and eternally miserable. Sort of like Sye Ten Bruggencate. (I’m seeing a connection here.) It is said to be angry, and also eternally unchanging. An angry god which does not and cannot change, is a god which is eternally angry. It cannot escape its own anger. The Christian god would be the epitome of unrelieved frustration.<br /><br />And Christians are people who worship this? They can have it. <br /><br />Regards,<br />DawsonBahnsen Burnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11030029491768748360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-30896905859215930162011-09-06T07:28:39.467-04:002011-09-06T07:28:39.467-04:00I quoted Tara Smith on rationalization: “Rationali...I quoted Tara Smith on rationalization: “Rationalization: having a preset conclusion and rigging an explanation or argument such that the conclusion appears well-founded; pouring your energy into making a conclusion look rationally justified rather than investigating whether it truly is.” (<i>Rationality and Objectivity</i>)<br /><br />Nide complained: “Here is another case of an objectivist redefining words.”<br /><br />Who said that Smith’s statements about rationalization were to be taken as a *definition*? I myself thought she was simply describing rationalization. Descriptions and definitions are not equivalent operations; a thinker can describe the meaning of a concept in a manner which expands upon its essentialized meaning. In fact, Smith’s statement reads as a series of examples of rationalization. <br /><br />Of course, it is quite common for a word to have more than one definition. I just checked the dictionary for another word that ends in –tion – namely *agitation*. Here are three definitions that I found:<br /><br />1. a state of excitement, disturbance, or worry<br />2. the act of moving something vigorously; the shaking or stirringof something<br />3. the act of attempting to stir up public opinion for or againstsomething<br /><br />“Don’t seem that same to me.” – Nide Corniell<br /><br />If that doesn't prove my point, check out the definition page for the word <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/relief" rel="nofollow">relief</a>. One source given on that page lists 17 different definitions for this one word.<br /><br />Now, if you have any substantial objection to the description of rationalization which I cited from Tara Smith, I’d be happy to examine it. But simply pointing out the fact that what Smith says about rationalization is not identical to what you found in a dictionary, that’s no argument at all. Again, you come unprepared and without an argument when in fact you should be more prepared – much, much more prepared than you are – and armed with at least a weak argument. But you don’t even have that much going for you!<br /><br />Regards,<br />DawsonBahnsen Burnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11030029491768748360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-6808649281991237412011-09-06T01:32:14.958-04:002011-09-06T01:32:14.958-04:00Faiheist,
I said I was signing off for the evenin...Faiheist,<br /><br />I said I was signing off for the evening, and then I saw your comments.<br /><br />With the stuff you write, are you trying to get on the website, "Fundies Say The Darndest Things"? (fstdt.com)<br /><br />Any answers I may have to your comments will have to wait until tomorrow.<br /><br />YdemocYdemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03498165330193613762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-11991824309655211952011-09-06T01:27:31.238-04:002011-09-06T01:27:31.238-04:00Dawson,
Just one last comment before I sign of fo...Dawson,<br /><br />Just one last comment before I sign of for the evening.<br /><br />Speaking of the "Cartoon Universe," the website, Fundies Say The Darndest Things (fstdt.com), has a quote from some Christian who goes by the name Vox Populi. This character writes:<br /><br />"If I am correct that my God is the Creator God, that we are all his creations, then killing every child under two on the planet is no more inherently significant than a programmer unilaterally wiping out his AI-bots in a game universe."<br /><br />This fundy seems to be on board with your "Cartoon Universe Premise." <br /><br />YdemocYdemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03498165330193613762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-76903120185019015432011-09-06T01:17:05.087-04:002011-09-06T01:17:05.087-04:00Do I agree with van til?
Well his qoute is out t...Do I agree with van til? <br /><br />Well his qoute is out the westminster confession. Which I qouted. <br /><br /><br />Well, labeling any action as evil assumes there is a standard. <br /><br />Why do you believe rape and murder are evil?<br /><br />Is abortion evil?<br /><br />How do you determine what's evil if in your world evil exist in a concrete?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-80377973744126791002011-09-06T00:57:13.194-04:002011-09-06T00:57:13.194-04:00Dawson,
In your blog entry I quoted above, you al...Dawson,<br /><br />In your blog entry I quoted above, you also wrote: "Psychologically, this is what is happening, in various degrees, in the mind of a believer: he might claim to be owned by his god, but since his god is a figment of his imagination, he really owns it rather than it owning him."<br /><br />An interesting study came out that, if I read it correctly, seems to confirm what you said. Here's a link: <br /><br />http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2009/11/creating_god_in_ones_own_image.php<br /><br />Here's the lead-in: "For many religious people, the popular question "What would Jesus do?" is essentially the same as "What would I do?" That's the message from an intriguing and controversial new study by Nicholas Epley from the University of Chicago. Through a combination of surveys, psychological manipulation and brain-scanning, he has found that when religious Americans try to infer the will of God, they mainly draw on their own personal beliefs." <br /><br />YdemocYdemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03498165330193613762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-4487360599333478872011-09-06T00:50:02.668-04:002011-09-06T00:50:02.668-04:00Ydemoc,
It's interesting because Christians a...Ydemoc,<br /><br />It's interesting because Christians also know that rape and murder is evil. <br /><br />Your stealing my air again. In your world who cares if people rape and murder it's every animal for himself.<br /><br />God knows rape and murder is evil. I see a connection<br /><br />So, you have decided to put God on trial. Would you mind presenting your case?<br /><br />AJ,<br /><br />I could only conclude that you don't why nature is uniform.<br /><br />So, your checking your memory with your memory of course you had to assume your memory was working first.<br /><br />Without begging the question or avoiding a circle why do you believe your memory is valid?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-84731259299587873072011-09-06T00:37:24.593-04:002011-09-06T00:37:24.593-04:00Faitheist,
Let me make another comment on what yo...Faitheist,<br /><br />Let me make another comment on what you wrote regarding the Westminster Confession of Faith. You said it means that,"Your free to do whatever you want. However, your freedom is determined and controlled by God."<br /><br />Now, Van Til says that, "God controls whatsoever comes to pass."<br /><br />Do you disagree with Van Til?<br /><br />If you do disagree with Van Til (and maybe you do) it seems this would mean, as Dawson noted in "Answering Ecualegacy, Pt. 1" (May 13, 2007), that: <br /><br />"a) God created everything in the universe,<br /> b) Evil exists in the universe, and<br /> c) God didn’t create evil. <br /><br />Seriously?<br /><br />That evil exists in the universe and yet was not created by the Christian god, must mean that it exists independent of the Christian god. So why suppose that the Christian god can control it? We’re constantly being told that “God created everything” and that “God controls whatsoever comes to pass.” And yet what Christians spout is something like: <br /> “Whoa, there! He didn’t create evil! Nope! No, we did that! We created evil!”<br /><br />***end quote***<br /><br />Then a few paragraphs later in the same blog entry, Dawson observes: <br /><br />"So... there are things that happen in his god’s universe (its “creation”) which it did not plan to happen, did not want to happen, or did not expect to happen. So it does not have total control, which can only mean: its creation has gone out of its control. Okay. Van Til believed in a sovereign god, while Ecualegacy does not. Got it."<br /><br />"Ecualegacy" in the above quote is the name of the believer who was interacting with Dawson.<br /><br />I'll say it again: No mystery do I see. I see inconsistencies, contradictions, rationalizations, and fundamental disagreements among those guided by, a so-called, Holy Spirit.<br /><br />One more parting quote from the same blog entry. Dawson writes: <br /><br />"It appears that, like other Christians, Ecualegacy is content to excuse his god from any responsibility for what it created, even though he wants to claim that it created everything that exists, is omniscient (and therefore knows everything about anything that it created, including its future actions), is omnipotent (and therefore has the means and the power to ensure its creation will do what it wants), and is all-good (and therefore would act to ensure that whatever happens in its creation is in fact also good), etc. Christians are always telling us that their god created the universe and that it created man in its own image, giving him his intellect and the capacity to use it. But again we must ask: what responsibility are Christians willing to acknowledge on the part of the deity they said put all of this into reality in the first place? The position that "God is not responsible" constitutes the most egregious of moral evasions that one could possibly conceive, especially given the context informed by their grandiose claims about their god's nature, abilities and talents."<br /><br />YdemocYdemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03498165330193613762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-6147934602918897032011-09-05T23:11:42.936-04:002011-09-05T23:11:42.936-04:00"Why do you believe in the unity formity of n..."Why do you believe in the unity formity of nature?"<br /><br />I don't know what the "unity formity" of nature is...is that in the bible?<br /><br />"Why do you believe that your memory is reliable?"<br /><br />I could give many reasons...one reason is that I can remember how to spell words...like UNIFORMITY.ActionJackson864https://www.blogger.com/profile/16636476428009956875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-76884536860381488132011-09-05T23:09:52.028-04:002011-09-05T23:09:52.028-04:00Faitheist,
Let me also add that freedom "con...Faitheist,<br /><br />Let me also add that freedom "controlled and determined" is no freedom at all.<br /><br />YdemocYdemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03498165330193613762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-69239492606626931002011-09-05T23:07:48.989-04:002011-09-05T23:07:48.989-04:00Faitheist wrote: "Your free to do whatever yo...Faitheist wrote: "Your free to do whatever you want. However, your freedom is determined and controlled by God."<br /><br /><br />So God controls and determines one's freedom to rape and murder? <br /><br />Faitheist wrote: "See the mystery?"<br /><br />No. There is no mystery here at all. But there is a contradiction. There can be no freedom to rape and murder. Only a purely evil being would allow this.<br /><br />YdemocYdemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03498165330193613762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-66608397570349295742011-09-05T22:52:26.402-04:002011-09-05T22:52:26.402-04:00Your free to do whatever you want. However, your f...Your free to do whatever you want. However, your freedom is determined and controlled by God.<br /><br />See the mystery?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-69077690195109153762011-09-05T22:33:23.827-04:002011-09-05T22:33:23.827-04:00Faitheist,
I asked Faitheist what this means. It...Faitheist,<br /><br />I asked Faitheist what this means. It's from the Westminster Confession of Faith: "yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established."<br /><br />Faitheist said: "It means your free and not free."<br /><br />So this is what all those words mean to you. That's it? You're free and not free? Your A and non-A? What does that even mean?<br /><br />YdemocYdemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03498165330193613762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-9715926813054464012011-09-05T22:27:29.896-04:002011-09-05T22:27:29.896-04:00AJ,
It's interesting because God has emotions...AJ,<br /><br />It's interesting because God has emotions. I see a connection here.<br /><br />I posed a question to you last night that you seem to overlook you keep arguing which assumes that you believe <br />nature is uniform and that your memory is reliable.<br /><br /><br />Maybe you can answer these two.<br /><br />Why do you believe in the unity formity of nature?<br /><br />Why do you believe that your memory is reliable?<br /><br /><br /><br />Ydemoc,<br /><br /><br />it means your free and not free.<br /><br /><br />BlessingsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com