tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post8173443519522189316..comments2024-03-29T07:36:41.429-04:00Comments on Incinerating Presuppositionalism: Christianity's Psychological Price TagBahnsen Burnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11030029491768748360noreply@blogger.comBlogger96125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-554196444784207312011-12-06T11:25:34.889-05:002011-12-06T11:25:34.889-05:00@Everyone
dawson has a new post, I will continue ...@Everyone<br /><br />dawson has a new post, I will continue my posting there.Justin Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17804641315202800289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-88843633327116806012011-12-06T02:16:59.567-05:002011-12-06T02:16:59.567-05:00same here, have to work tomarrow, nightsame here, have to work tomarrow, nightJustin Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17804641315202800289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-74833657047876706712011-12-06T02:16:27.520-05:002011-12-06T02:16:27.520-05:00And I answered it.
Christianity is based on the r...And I answered it.<br /><br />Christianity is based on the revelation of Jesus Christ.<br /><br />Spefically, what's the problem with God controlling everything that happens?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-79600271804076851112011-12-06T02:16:06.312-05:002011-12-06T02:16:06.312-05:00Justin,
Okay. I'll use that email. I could ...Justin,<br /><br />Okay. I'll use that email. I could email you right now, but I'll email you sometime tomorrow. I'm on the phone right now, and I'm going to go to bed soon.<br /><br />YdemocYdemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03498165330193613762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-18329850300972055292011-12-06T02:14:59.693-05:002011-12-06T02:14:59.693-05:00Nide said...
"The king does what he please...Nide said... <br /><br />"The king does what he pleases so call it want you want. Just because you don't like it doesn't change the facts."<br /><br />The irony of this sentence was not lost on me:) facts indeed.Justin Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17804641315202800289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-72907475564737184482011-12-06T02:08:57.191-05:002011-12-06T02:08:57.191-05:00@Ydemoc
yes,use that email, thanks
@Nide
"...@Ydemoc<br /><br />yes,use that email, thanks<br /><br /><br />@Nide<br /><br />"The king does what he pleases so call it want you want. Just because you don't like it doesn't change the facts."<br /><br />Am I to infer from this statement that you affirm that Christianity is a metaphysically subjective paradigm?<br /><br />"Specifically, what's your problem?"<br /><br />I don't think I have a problem as such. If god exists and has the powers ascribed to him in the bible, well that would be that. What I want from you is an answer to my question and I think I just got it but I would appreciate it if you would clarified it for me.Justin Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17804641315202800289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-2857838981424327982011-12-06T02:02:43.614-05:002011-12-06T02:02:43.614-05:00Justin,
The king does what he pleases so call it ...Justin,<br /><br />The king does what he pleases so call it want you want. Just because you don't like it doesn't change the facts.<br /><br />Specifically, what's your problem?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-13046044468572376022011-12-06T01:56:31.775-05:002011-12-06T01:56:31.775-05:00Justin,
I just got back from a movie, and I just ...Justin,<br /><br />I just got back from a movie, and I just read your posting. Do I use your email that is listed under your blogger profile?<br /><br />YdemocYdemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03498165330193613762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-61327889105717399072011-12-06T01:43:29.573-05:002011-12-06T01:43:29.573-05:00@Nide
At this time I am not interested in your th...@Nide<br /><br />At this time I am not interested in your thoughts on my world view or what you think my world view is. I have only one thing at this time that I want to find out from you. After that we can discuss my world view to your hearts content. My remaining question is if god created all of existence apart from himself by mere will then how is it not metaphysically subjective? Answer that and we can move on to any topic you wish.Justin Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17804641315202800289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-18002247031537654022011-12-06T01:42:39.604-05:002011-12-06T01:42:39.604-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Justin Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17804641315202800289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-28874822097425637282011-12-06T01:31:38.566-05:002011-12-06T01:31:38.566-05:00Justin,
Said: "My world view holds that no c...Justin,<br /><br />Said: "My world view holds that no consciousness anywhere at anytime ever held a subjective relationship with the objects of its awareness."<br /><br />Ok based on what? How did your world view come to this conclusion? Is it based on emotion? Some kind of revelation? Is it based on personal experience? <br /><br />Then you asked: "So you agree metaphysically subjective world views are invalid, good, now how is it that god does not enjoy a metaphysically subjective relationship with the rest of existence if he created it by mere will and can effect changes at will such as parting the red sea or Noah' flood?"<br /><br /><br />Like I said me and you cannot define or determine what reality, ultimately, is or what it will be or what is possible or not. <br /><br />Christians don't define God or what reality is. God tells us who he is and what reality is. We know this based on his revelation.<br /><br />Metaphysics based on personal experience is invalid, arbitrary and subjective in respect to human beings.<br /><br />Since God is an ominiscient creator and knows what is best for his creation and is guided by who he is. That is perfect good, just and moral. His relationship to what he creates and has power over is not only valid but sound.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-64433161330925666252011-12-06T00:08:00.934-05:002011-12-06T00:08:00.934-05:00@Ydemoc
If it would be alright, could you ema...@Ydemoc<br /><br /> If it would be alright, could you email me a contact email I could use to reach you. I want to discuss some other issues with objectivism that are not strictly related to the topic of presuppositionalism.Justin Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17804641315202800289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-5853993232353797362011-12-06T00:07:18.470-05:002011-12-06T00:07:18.470-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Justin Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17804641315202800289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-17260672958426808032011-12-05T23:59:08.432-05:002011-12-05T23:59:08.432-05:00@Nide
Some of what you said is on topic,for examp...@Nide<br /><br />Some of what you said is on topic,for example....<br /><br /><br />"Christianity is based on the revelation of Jesus Christ not on my "metaphysical subjectivism". I don't determine what God or the world is."<br /><br />From this I conclude that you are taking the option that Christianity is not metaphysically subjective based on the fact that you do not determine what the world is. However this is not how I assessed that Christianity is metaphysically subjective. I came to that conclusion based on the alleged relationship god is supposed to have between his consciousness and the objects of his consciousness. Metaphysical subjectivism is defined by the relationship between any consciousness and reality, not just yours or mine, but any. If just one has it we have metaphysical subjectivism.<br /><br />You continue on topic with....<br /><br />"All metaphysical subjective views of reality, existence are invalid. For example, your world view is one of them. The problem is your view of reality is based on personal experience. Saying that , for example, things are the way they are because that's the way you have experienced doesn't explain anything. It's arbitraty"<br /><br />Well we agree on something, all metaphysical subjective world views are invalid, how then do you deal with the problem of god's relationship with the rest of existence. He created it by mere thought, you cant get more subjective then that. Further my world view is most definitely not based on metaphysical subjectivism. My world view holds that no consciousness anywhere at anytime ever held a subjective relationship with the objects of its awareness. So just how do you rationalize that I hold to such a metaphysically subjective world view. You may think it arbitrary but subjective it is not. But this is not about my world view and you know that. The rest of your post is just an attempt to shift the onus from where it rightly belongs.<br /><br />So you agree metaphysically subjective world views are invalid, good, now how is it that god does not enjoy a metaphysically subjective relationship with the rest of existence if he created it by mere will and can effect changes at will such as parting the red sea or Noah' flood?Justin Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17804641315202800289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-16789015183122160482011-12-05T23:56:12.751-05:002011-12-05T23:56:12.751-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Justin Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17804641315202800289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-42881568690704844592011-12-05T23:35:05.608-05:002011-12-05T23:35:05.608-05:00Justin,
Christianity is based on the revelation o...Justin,<br /><br />Christianity is based on the revelation of Jesus Christ not on my "metaphysical subjectivism". I don't determine what God or the world is.<br /><br />All metaphysical subjective views of reality, existence are invalid. For example, your world view is one of them. The problem is your view of reality is based on personal experience. Saying that , for example, things are the way they are because that's the way you have experienced doesn't explain anything. It's arbitraty <br /><br />So, since reason is your guiding principle my question is who's reason yours or somebody else's?<br /><br />If yes how do you know your not delusional?<br /><br />If no how do you know that the "somebody" your relying on is not delusional, for example, Ayn Rand?<br /><br />To answer your rephrased question which I just did. Yes "explanations" based on personal experience are arbitrary and hence invalid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-81033266494573153062011-12-05T22:56:02.425-05:002011-12-05T22:56:02.425-05:00I am rephrasing my second question
Are world view...I am rephrasing my second question<br /><br />Are world views that are metaphysically subjective invalid because they are metaphysically subjective, yes or no.Justin Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17804641315202800289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-64289695057291210912011-12-05T22:50:02.328-05:002011-12-05T22:50:02.328-05:00@Nide
"In others words what you believe, Ult...@Nide<br /><br />"In others words what you believe, Ultimetaly, doesn't really matter but to, hopefully , get rid of me you'll spit out any old arbitry claim. Amazing"<br /><br />what I believe most definitely matters... to me. However it has no direct bearing on your world view. The case for Christ rests on its own merits or none at all. Its strength is not to be found in the weakness of the world views of others.<br /><br />"So, if something is not perceptually self evident you won't believe it. Nice"<br /><br />Again, how, just how can you misconstrue what I said to mean that. What I said, what I meant was I need a reason to believe in things not perceptually self evident. There are many things I believe in that are not perceptually self evident, but in each and every one I have a reason for believing in them. Provide me with a valid non contradictory reason to accept god and I will.<br /><br /><br />"I answered your "metaphysical subjective" question the problem is the answer I gave is not the want you want. It doesn't go well with your arbitrary beliefs."<br /><br />And I replied that it was important to me. Remember you came here and challenged us. If you want to convince me you are going to have to take that into account or cant you meet the burden your challenge to us has placed on you?<br /><br />my question is still unanswered. I gave Nide 3 ways of dealing with it and he continues to go off on tangents, oh well. Lets try a different tack.<br /><br />1. is Christianity metaphysically subjective, yes or no?<br /><br />2. are metaphysically subjective world views invalid, yes or no?Justin Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17804641315202800289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-9115420370008700282011-12-05T22:44:10.576-05:002011-12-05T22:44:10.576-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Justin Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17804641315202800289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-43757888123023686852011-12-05T22:41:56.622-05:002011-12-05T22:41:56.622-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Justin Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17804641315202800289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-57481076839084498902011-12-05T22:37:04.830-05:002011-12-05T22:37:04.830-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Justin Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17804641315202800289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-26806418252021070072011-12-05T21:15:40.150-05:002011-12-05T21:15:40.150-05:00Justin,
In others words what you believe, Ultimet...Justin,<br /><br />In others words what you believe, Ultimetaly, doesn't really matter but to, hopefully , get rid of me you'll spit out any old arbitry claim. Amazing<br /><br />So, if something is not perceptually self evident you won't believe it. Nice<br /><br />How is it that your not delusional?<br /><br />I answered your "metaphysical subjective" question the problem is the answer I gave is not the want you want. It doesn't go well with your arbitrary beliefs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-39773291129160947442011-12-05T21:00:47.604-05:002011-12-05T21:00:47.604-05:00Ydemoc,
Inside this room, all of my dreams become...Ydemoc,<br /><br />Inside this room, all of my dreams become realities, and some of my realities become dreams. Willy WonkaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-55033067230271361962011-12-05T20:59:57.960-05:002011-12-05T20:59:57.960-05:00“What's existence?”
This has already been ans...“What's existence?”<br /><br />This has already been answered several times in my correspondence with you, both the concept and its referent.<br /><br />“By the way are "explanations" based on personal experience "explanations" at all?”<br /><br />how does this answer or get you closer to answering why I should accept your world view. My world view is irrelevant to how you defend yours.<br /><br />“Are you admitting that your lack of belief in God is based on personal experience and hence arbitrary?”<br /><br />nope, the only reason I need, the only reason anyone needs is there is simply no reason to accept the claim god exists. No one ever needs a reason to not believe a non perceptually self evident claim, what they need is a reason to believe in it. I go one further by pointing out that god belief is metaphysically subjective and thus invalid. I listed 3 ways you could deal with my objection and yet you have not availed yourself of any of them. <br /><br />My unanswered question.....<br /><br />Why should I accept Christianity given its metaphysicaly subjective basis. Still unanswered.Justin Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17804641315202800289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-35791938349337871462011-12-05T20:53:05.304-05:002011-12-05T20:53:05.304-05:00Trinity wrote: "What's existence?"
...Trinity wrote: "What's existence?"<br /><br />Just by looking around you'll have your answer.Ydemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03498165330193613762noreply@blogger.com