tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post6351934732760151736..comments2024-03-29T07:36:41.429-04:00Comments on Incinerating Presuppositionalism: William Lane Craig Versus Objective MoralityBahnsen Burnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11030029491768748360noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-44298340427983400462016-01-14T21:51:25.647-05:002016-01-14T21:51:25.647-05:00For anyone who is interested, I recently listened ...For anyone who is interested, I recently listened to a debate between Matt Dillahunty and Jay Lucas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_6NrFWDTLc). Despite the topic of the debate being “Does God Exist?”, Lucas decided to only make a moral consequence argument with a dash of presuppositionalism. <br /><br />Overall, I think both debaters did a poor job of arguing for their respective moral systems (Dillahunty is quite skilled at exposing the problems with Christian morality, but does not seem to turn that critical eye to his own), but I thought some of these exchanges were worth sharing.<br /><br />On torture...<br /><br />Starting at 1:17:58, Lucas challenges Dillahunty to provide an example of the god of Christianity torturing somebody. After the audience laughter dies down, Matt asks Lucas if he will be tortured in hell for unbelief. Lucas, of course, says “yes” and affirms that this would be just because god created Matt.<br /><br />On slavery…<br /><br />Starting at 1:22:57, Dillahunty asks why god did not include a commandment to the effect of “thou shalt not own another human being as property.” According to Lucas, his god thinks slavery is immoral, but he nevertheless chose to regulate it instead of banning because slavery in the ancient world was a safety net for debtors ("god's mercy").<br /><br />So to sum up… <br /><br />According to Lucas, torture is moral as long as it’s a creator torturing its creations (I wonder if this extends to one’s children? … there would seem to be some biblical support for that). Slavery is immoral, but it is OK to allow people to be treating as property as long as the enslaved are destitute.<br /><br />…and Lucas is worried about moral consequences of other worldviews?<br /><br />Sincerely,<br />Brandon D DickensAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02232659034334403223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-88766718281864634272016-01-05T04:57:14.150-05:002016-01-05T04:57:14.150-05:00"even if they know nothing about it. Perhaps ..."even if they know nothing about it. Perhaps this is why they're disinclined to educate themselves on Objectivism in the first place."<br /><br />Too scary or themselves, me thinks.<br />95BSharpshooterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10757806090270175757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-64173435576038008892015-12-30T22:50:46.276-05:002015-12-30T22:50:46.276-05:00Dawson,
Thanks for the response -- as well as for...Dawson,<br /><br />Thanks for the response -- as well as for another excellent blog entry!<br /><br />YdemocYdemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03498165330193613762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-16547383724887788092015-12-30T22:00:51.291-05:002015-12-30T22:00:51.291-05:00Thanks for pointing that out, Brandon. I have edit...Thanks for pointing that out, Brandon. I have edited the offending typo!<br /><br />I'm glad readers of this blog are as concerned about accuracy as I am. It says a lot about the readership here!<br /><br /><br />Yes, Ydemoc, that would have been an honest reply. But believers of course, as you well know, have already determined in their minds that whatever alternative to their preferred version of Christianity they meet, must be wrong and dutifully maligned, even if they know nothing about it. Perhaps this is why they're disinclined to educate themselves on Objectivism in the first place. <br /><br />Regards,<br />DawsonBahnsen Burnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11030029491768748360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-54145191991846962272015-12-30T17:51:26.875-05:002015-12-30T17:51:26.875-05:00Brain is not cooperating with blogger today, it se...Brain is not cooperating with blogger today, it seems.<br /><br />The supposed error (which should have been bolder) is: "She calls here Ann Rand." -- if it was not obvious.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02232659034334403223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-90653924834182601362015-12-30T17:49:59.158-05:002015-12-30T17:49:59.158-05:00Dawson,
Thank you for your latest. I had hoped fo...Dawson,<br /><br />Thank you for your latest. I had hoped for one new entry before the new year, and you gave two.<br /><br />Slowly digesting them both, but I wanted to bring what I assume to be a small error to your attention:<br /><br />"First of all, notice that Craig (in spite of all his academic celebrity) doesn’t even pronounce Ayn Rand’s name correctly. She calls here Ann Rand. As a scholar, doesn’t Craig know that “Ayn” sounds just like the German indeterminate article “ein”? The questioner got this right, so why didn’t Craig? This by itself suggests a lack of deep familiarity with Objectivism, but for our purposes here we can overlook it." (my emphasis)<br /><br />Hoping you have a safe and enjoyable new year.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br />Brandon D DickensAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02232659034334403223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-88979489012529851552015-12-30T17:49:00.941-05:002015-12-30T17:49:00.941-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02232659034334403223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-32741569678527824172015-12-30T15:50:34.405-05:002015-12-30T15:50:34.405-05:00My first sentence above should read, "...with...My first sentence above should read, "...without having fully read your newest blog entry..." <br /><br />YdemocYdemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03498165330193613762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11714522.post-30273793562034984912015-12-30T15:30:45.661-05:002015-12-30T15:30:45.661-05:00Dawson,
So, without having read your newest blog ...Dawson,<br /><br />So, without having read your newest blog entry, I ventured over to the link you provided and watched Craig's pitiful attempt to answer what I thought was a well-articulated question by the audience member. <br /><br />From Craig's mischaracterizations, it seems that he is totally unfamiliar with the basics of Rand's philosophy. It's like he was just making stuff up! <br /><br />The honest response would've have been for Craig to just say something along the lines of, "I'm not well-versed on Rand's philosophy, so I really can't speak to your question."<br /><br />I'm looking forward to reading the rest of your latest entry. <br /><br />Ydemoc<br />Ydemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03498165330193613762noreply@blogger.com